Bringing Bibles To The Porn Industry

We have been doing ministry for several years now and have had a great outreach at the porn shows. On three different occasions, we have given away Bibles for free at porn shows. Much to our surprise, they were well received. Since we are on a tight budget here at XXXchurch.com, we always try and get the best deal we can... which means the Bible covers are usually less than cool. After the last show in Las Vegas, where we gave away 1000 bibles, I looked into getting custom bibles printed that would match the whole look of our booth. We have a 10-foot backdrop, postcards, stickers, and T-shirts that all have “Jesus Loves Porn Stars” design. The new Bible cover art was an attempt to customize that image and message with the powerful word of God. The cooler the cover, the more separated from all the trash someone gets at a porn show, the more likely it gets picked up and read.

I contacted the American Bible Society and had made arrangements months ago to order 10,000 bibles. We have 3 porn shows coming up (Erotica LA, June. Gay Erotica NY, October. AVN Expo Las Vegas, January.) The cost was over $7,000 but in our opinion it was money well spent. They printed the Bibles prior to getting our cover artwork. Two weeks ago, we sent over the cover art and all hell broke loose.

Long story short…they have refunded all of our money and have refused to print the Bibles. They have told us that this goes against everything the Bible stands for and they don’t want anyone to think that Jesus is okay with porn. We think they are wrong. We think this goes with the central message of the gospel and Jesus loves you regardless of your profession.

Once again, this is not about shock tactics, this is about trying to get the word of God to places most say would be impossible but we have found a way to do it. Not printing the Bibles hinders the gospel of Christ from going forth and that bothers us.We will get these Bibles printed. Someone will step up and help us. No doubt that will happen.

LA TIMES STORY

The La Times has run the story about this. It is a great piece and hopefully will help us find a publisher. Check out the article by clicking here!

HELP SUPPORT THE JLPS BIBLE CAMPAIGN

BUY A TEE SHIRT -We have had numerous requests for the Jesus Loves Porn Stars T-shirts. They are available by clicking here!

SPONSOR BIBLES -If you would like to help us get these Bibles out to the people at the porn shows, we are taking $20 donations. For that $20 we will guarantee that the Bibles will be handed out at one of the three upcoming porn shows we will be attending over the next 9 months. We will send you one Bible (once we get them printed) and give away another 12 for every $20 that you donate. ORDER A BIBLE NOW!

Or to make a Donation CLICK HERE!

More To Come...

Craig

Comments

[Peter]

I'm trying to imagine the faces of the printers as they looked at your cover art...

But seriously, how can they claim that 'Jesus loves porn stars' goes against everything the bible stands for? As far as I can tell, Jesus was pretty ok with meeting people where they were- adulterers,prostitutes, tax collectors- that didn't mean he was condoning their lifestyle, just meeting them and showing them God's love. I can't honestly say I'd want a private copy of a porn star cover bible, but I can see how this would have been quite a handy tool for your ministry.

A thought: maybe it was the colour scheme that did it for you and not the whole porn star thing- you should have stuck to fake gold leaf on fake black leather... :)

[brianmpei]

Hey, this is hard to believe. And sadly, at the same time, not so hard to believe.

I wonder if you guys have ever thought of hiring a manager/resource type person to handle situations like this? I know there are some people who can just make things like this happen despite the fiercest opposition, it's their gift.

Whoever would have thought that the Bible Society would be afraid of sending the message that God loves porn stars? I wonder what other group in our society would make them uncomfortable if you promoted God's love for that group? What was Jesus thinking letting that prostitute wash his feet?

Keep trying guys.

[Luke Norris]

Sounds like they are working for that cult Westbrook Baptist Church in Kansas you had on the show!

[Jeff]

DEFINITELY make sure that the LA Times story gets up here this weekend, because I want to point my morning show to it. Hopefully you can get some Bible belt publicity from this as well.

[Fade To Numb]

As an owner of one of those shirts, I've had this discussion a couple of times... not with old fuddy-duddy Christians, but also with young Christians my age who are slighly put-off.

Yes, Jesus DOES love porn stars. I think the Bible society would agree with that, but they are saying that they don't want to give off the impression that Jesus is okay with porn. Because he's not. We agree with them on that point. If we look at the opposition's argument, we might understand that perhaps the term "porn stars" itself can seem like a glorification of the porn industry.

Yes, you could also say that Jesus loves crackheads, or Jesus loves practicing homosexuals, or Jesus loves gamblers, alcoholics... or Jesus loves the Pharisees. Jesus loves televangelists (ooh, that's a good one). I would guess that some people are worried about the theme of the logo and the term "porn stars."

Jesus did eat with sinners. He spent time with them and he loved them. But he also called them to repentance, and perhaps the Bible society just isn't seeing the whole picture from your cover art.

Just some constructive thoughts -- It never hurts to see both sides of a discussion.

[Jeff]

Hey, I think I may have an idea...

What about getting hardcover Bibles (maybe the Message Remix) and getting someone to print laminant covers of the Pornstar covers, then use that as a book cover?

Just a thought...

[Torch]

As someone who's fairly disenfranchised with the state of Organized Religion™ these days, this both saddens me and angers me. Honestly, what you guys at xxxchurch are doing is one of the only good examples of evangelism taking place where it's needed most, and to see one of the biggest (if not THE biggest, I really have no ideae) producers of THE BIBLE roadblocking you like that... aargh.

How in the hell is giving away free bibles against everything the bible stands for? Who's running that place, and what bible are they reading? *rage*

[Matt Rupert]

Have you guys considered making wicking/running shirts available for order through your web site?
MTR

[Adam]

what an awesome idea. as soon as i have an extra 20 bucks, in like a week or so, i'll be sure to send it.

[Bryan L. Fordham]

What translation were y'all gonna use? It may be possible to find another printer, depending on the version.

A NT with the WEB version, with that cover, would rock

[Mike]

Hey guys, rememebr the Stryper bibles? They had a sticker on the front of the bible and it was VERY cool! We have used that concept a few times and the great thing is that if you want to change the sticker for a different theme you can. Let me know if you are interested and I will email you the contact info of the company Stryper orders from. I dont have it in front of me or I would just post it here. One thing is for sure, American Bible Society is obviously not that American. I am reminded of the old saying "freedom of speech just watch what you say." Im headed over to the link to send a donation regardless of what you guys put on the cover of your bibles.

[Jared Cramer]

Hey guys, I posted this story over on my blog. This is definitely some ridiculous stuff. I hope everything works out for you.

[Mike]

Hey guys, just a heads up. When the link is clicked for checkout the shopping cart adds tax to the entire ammount of the donation.

[craig]

you will be charged tax (if you live in ca) and shipping since you actually get something in return, it is has to be done as a purchase rather then just a straight donation.

craig

[Paul Connors]

Not the American Bible Society's best moment. Lame, lame, lame.

[Mike]

Ahhh, right you are Craig! I give to many non-profits every year and I write my donations off on my taxes. Every now and then I will notice that tax has been added to a donation and when I brought it to their attention it was corrected. Then there are the non-profits that give you something when you make a donation. For instance, when I sponsored a little girl through compassion last year I was given a WOW 2005 cd. I have sponsored other ministries that have given a free book with your dontation. So, when I read your response I decided to dig a little deeper. What I discovered is that the 1993 Revenue Reconciliation Act, requires that no goods or services of value can be given to you for your contribution to a non-profit. It makes me wonder how these other non profits get away with it. Or how they justify breaking the law for that matter. Anyway, Im not at all insinuating that you should follow those other guys, I was just using them as an example. It seems like you guys cant even wake up in the morning without getting torched for the good work your doing. The last thing you need is to piss off the government. Thanks for all you do, and my $20 has already been sent.

[dan]

dude thats crap...i want one of those

[Roy Lloyd]

I thought you might like to see the response that was sent to Craig from the Bible Society and decide for yourself. The Bible Society offers to work with the ministry to create a cover that would be more in line with what the stated mission is of the ministry, but this was ignored. And so the ministry went public to try to punish another ministry, which I find personally troubling. Read for yourself and think this through.

Roy

Dear Craig:

Thank you for your e-mail message and for pointing us to your websites. Fireproof Ministries is certainly to be commended for its outreach to those addicted to pornography.

While we understand that “Jesus Loves Porn Stars” is used on much of your promotional material, and while we certainly do not dispute that Jesus’ love is extended to all people and that he “came to invite sinners” to be his followers (Matthew 9:13) and “to save people who are lost” (Luke 19:10), nevertheless, we feel that the wording is misleading and inappropriate for a New Testament cover. Given that your ministry is targeted to those who are addicted to pornography vis-à-vis porn stars, the title is not addressed to the audience you are seeking to serve. We recognize that you are requesting a cover design that looks “cool” and we believe this can be achieved with colorful artwork and back-cover “teaser” copy.

Such a customized New Testament requires contexting. That is why I suggested in my e-mail to Annie LoCastro that the New Testament contain (either on the inside or back cover) your organization’s mission statement, web address, etc., to establish the context for your distributing this New Testament.

The American Bible Society is supportive of your initiative to share the Gospel with those who are so addicted, but the cover design as presented is not one that we can approve inasmuch as the product will bear the ABS imprint. ABS serves a broad constituency and our mandate prohibits us from publishing or distributing material that carries the potential of being divisive among the churches we serve.

We trust you understand our position in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Barbara Bernstengel
Director
Education Unit
Nida Institute for Biblical Scholarship

[Frank]

We all need to remember that while Jesus ate with sinners, He did not go into the brothels or other places of ill repute to do so; the sinners came to him. While we need to reach the lost, it is ultimately the life of Christ lived out through His body (the church) that will draw the lost. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him…” (John 6:44).
Starting a public dispute with the Bible Society will not accomplish that.

[Alex]

I just listened to the Bianca Jordan Interview. I admit that I am stunned. She was one of my favorite porn actresses. She definitely hasn't been around and I've wondered what she's been up to. Well, now I know that she has gotten out of the industry. Huge sigh.....

That being said, I see a fatal flaw in Craig & Mike's approach here, and I challenge you guys to address this. Basically so far, all porn stars you interviewed (except maybe Moonshine) have Christian family background. Obviously these girls have been heavily influenced by Christian theology long before they actually got into the industry. So, in that sense, it's very reasonable to think that they might not be "typical" cases.

I challenge you guys to interview female pornstars with *no* religious background and see some of them would actually consider getting out of the porn industry. And now, check out this news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060322/people_nm/life_porn_wine_dc_3

Savanna Samson, an award-winning porn star, is making wine now, and her wine was rated very high. This is a perfect example of how a porn star can use her career as a leverage. As I've always stated, things are not always black and white.

[Lauralin]

You say that you are not about shock tactics and yet you have a blow-up penis that travels with you to the shows. If your concern is to spread the gospel and not promote yourself, then you wouldn't have gone running to a reporter when the American Bible Society turned you down, instead you would have quietly found other ways to go about the Lord's work.

God does love people, regardless of their profession, but He also calls us to live a life separate from this world and He certainly wouldn't want us to continue living in sin or in a sinful profession.

Pornagraphy is a disease that is destroying marriages, families, and lives and it seems to me that you are making light of such a thing by spending time at these shows instead of providing an alternate place to go. You can reach those addicted to pornography without going outside the confines of the church since you can find these addicts anywhere. There's no need to be mixed up in something as questionable as the shows that you are attending.

You are taking impressionable young people to these shows with you -- exposing them to something that perhaps they otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to.. opening Pandora's box if you would. Young men and women should stay as FAR away from pornography as possible, not immerse themselves in it with the hope that it won't affect them.

[Jeff]

Hi Roy. Thanks for posting that letter, but it seems to me that it weakens your side of the case further. See, according to the text you posted, Ms. Bernstengel saw the ministry only as one that can help those addicted to pornography. According to her, "Given that your ministry is targeted to those who are addicted to pornography vis-à-vis porn stars, the title is not addressed to the audience you are seeking to serve." This is not the only ministry that xxxchurch provides. It also reaches out to those in the pornography industry to let them know that they are still loved, no matter how deep they are in whatever they are. That's the whole point of "Jesus Loves Pornstars."
If you look at the blog and at the history of this site, you will notice that xxxchurch intended the Bibles to be available for those who attend the porn shows, both pornographers and attendees alike and NOT for those who are struggling with the addiction to pornography. You will also notice that this site has had this dual purpose from day one, evidenced by the fact that they launched the site at one of those porn shows to begin with. And if ABS didn't see that in the first place, to be blunt, I don't think you did your due dilligence in the first place.
It is, of course, your choice on whether to run the Bibles or not. I'm not arguing that choice. I am arguing that the editorial content supporting the choice is at best uninformed and at worst exclusivist.
Jesus loves pornstars as much as he loves good little Christian boys and girls...but who needs to know that more? I contend that ABS's position has hurt the ability to relay that message to the ones that needed it the most.

[Alex]

Another thing Craig & Mike haven't addressed: Have you seriously looked into the fact that pornography provides unfortunate people a legitimate way to fulfill their sexual desire and release at least some of their sexual frustrations? i.e. Some people just don't have luck or opportunities to meet girls in their lives. Some are overweight, underweight, too busy, etc. and they just aren't going to have much chance no matter how you Christians want to insist that relationship isn't just about outward appearance. Admit it, appearance matters for one's impression, and it significantly affect the chance of developing romantic relationship. Some people aren't very good at it, and pornography gives them a way to release frustrations.

Also, what is it that Craig & Mike are both married, they can have sex with their wives if they want to, yet they tell other singles to "stay pure" and not even masturbate? Some people can never marry. Are you guys seriously suggesting that they don't deserve to release their legitimate and natural sexual desire one way or the other? What makes you better than those unfortunate singles? What do you suggest in terms of releasing legitimate sexual desire and frustrations? Quite honestly, I don't see how anyone could without at least masturbating.

[fromthemorning]

"We all need to remember that while Jesus ate with sinners, He did not go into the brothels or other places of ill repute to do so; the sinners came to him. While we need to reach the lost, it is ultimately the life of Christ lived out through His body (the church) that will draw the lost."

Frank--
How do you know? Jesus did a great number of things that were not written.

[FTM]

"God does love people, regardless of their profession, but He also calls us to live a life separate from this world and He certainly wouldn't want us to continue living in sin or in a sinful profession. "

Read The Gutter. Sure, there are people in church that need help, but why ignore those outside? I'm sick of Christians acting like we should hide from the evil world behind church walls. It's elitist and it accomplishes nothing.

[Roar]

Churches have no walls... because Soylent Church is PEOPLE.

[Mike]

Lets not forget the motto of the American Bible Society..."Good News for Everyone." It has already been pointed out that those who are enslaved by an addiction or profession of pornagraphy are obviously not included in their definition of "Everyone." While most of us are surprised at their refusal to provide the Good News to a group willing to distribute it to those society would deem as outcasts. It should come as no surprise that this is not the first time they have refused to send the light of the Good News into the darkness.

It takes an extraordinary ammount of honor and bravery to take the Good News where no one else will. Craig, Mike and J.R. have displayed that they are willing to risk everything to go where many refuse to go. Everytime they step foot into a porn show they risk the attack of those who would like nothing more than to assassinate their character and credibility. Yet it seems that their biggest adversary has been the church.

Just think of those who have risked life and limb to smuggle bibles into communist countries while the American Bible Society wouldnt lift a finger to help those right here in America. So should it really come as a shock to us that they have a prejudice definition of the word "Everyone."

The American Bible Society is well known for refusing to provide bibles to those bound by the chains of the world. In this case they are refusing to provide the Good News to a people whose hearts are dark with the sin of pornography. But another well known example shows that the American Bible Society kept the light of the Good News from the darkness of American Slavery as well!

Click the link below to read how the American Bible Society does NOT think the Good News is for Everyone!

http://medicolegal.tripod.com/goodellsaas.htm#p210-supply-bibles

Scroll down to page 210.

[Jeremy]

why not contact Zondervan and try and have them print them for you in like NIV or something. They published you're first book and our publishing "The Dirty Little Secret" (Which I can't wait to read!). They seem to be in line with your ministry. And another thing, I bet it was just one person who wrote you and said that the Jesus is against what you're doing and all that crap! I'm sure there are plenty of people at the American Bible Society who think you guys are awesome! My pastor is in his 60s, is a fairly conservative individual (not necesarily in teaching), and thinks you guys are great! I could give the $20 I sure would, but I am a poor college student! I will none the less pray for you guys and for the upcoming Gay Expo! God Bless you guys!

[sugared_henna]

"Soylent green is church." ---> dude, that totally rocked my socks!

[sugared_henna]

Oops....misquote on my past post. sorry 'bout that

[Willbrojnr]

" just listened to the Bianca Jordan Interview. I admit that I am stunned. She was one of my favorite porn actresses. She definitely hasn't been around and I've wondered what she's been up to. Well, now I know that she has gotten out of the industry. Huge sigh.....

That being said, I see a fatal flaw in Craig & Mike's approach here, and I challenge you guys to address this. Basically so far, all porn stars you interviewed (except maybe Moonshine) have Christian family background. Obviously these girls have been heavily influenced by Christian theology long before they actually got into the industry. So, in that sense, it's very reasonable to think that they might not be "typical" cases.

I challenge you guys to interview female pornstars with *no* religious background and see some of them would actually consider getting out of the porn industry."

So you think that someone like Briana, her opinion is not valid enough just because she came from a Christian background?

ALex if they are not typical cases then why get involved with Porn in the first place? There are a whole host of reasons people get into porn but the primary motivation is money. So at the end of the day I think that your 'concern' is wrong and they have very valid truthes to put across

[Donovan Phillips]

I love reading this entry. It shows so much of what I find both amusing and nauseating about Christianity.

For those who don't know, my father is a retired pastor. Growing up, I memorized big portions of the Bible so I could win Bible Quiz events. I am now a pornographer. I produce softcore porn for the most part, and have been doing so for 8 years. I love my life. I have less stress than ever before. I live a comfortable existence and have a lot of fun. I'm not into drugs. When I walk up to someone on the street I can strike up a conversation and leave with smiles on both of our faces. And even my very religious, Bible School attending ex-wife will tell you: I'm probably in the top 1 percentile of all men on being a really good father.

I have been reading this website for awhile now. I met the two "pastors" in 'Vegas and have even been interviewed on their radio show ("Dirty Little Secrets" Episode 6: 10/12/05).

I love the fact that the American Bible Society won't print your covers. I love what this says about them. Nothing but negative.

I love the fact that you two used that ABS rejection to gain more publicity instead of quietly finding someone else to do it. I love what this says about you. Nothing but negative.

I love Lauralin's post that tells you exactly what I've told you in the past: that you have no excuse for taking impressionable people with you to porn conventions, passing right by hardcore porn with them in tow, and erecting your "penis" to get the attention of those of us in this business. YOU think that we think you're cool for doing that. But WE don't feel that way. We think you're trying too hard to "fit in". We're not children, you know. You'd have more of our respect standing outside the doors handing out your Bibles. We think you just like being involved in our business under the guise of trying to "help" us. You can have a "clear" consience and be involved in porn all at the same time. You'd never admit it, but if there was a way to prove it I'd bet a substantial amount of money that you and your staff masturbate much more often at these "shows" than normal. You know the answer to that one. Your staff knows the answer to that one. Ask yourself some serious questions as to how that reflects on what you're doing.

And, related to that, I love how one poster pointed out that, while Jesus ministered to prostitutes, he didn't go to brothels to do so. Bravo! Jesus wouldn't be in there with Wally Weiner parking himself next to hard core porn blaring from the speakers and television sets. And he most certainly wouldn't take impressional "kids" there to "minister" with him.

I also love the challenge by "Alex" to try to witness to those in the porn industry who DO NOT have Christianity in their background. Damn good points raised by that poster.

See, you Christians can't even agree on what's right and wrong. Yet you think you have some power or authority to tell US what is right and wrong.

Why don't you instead try to stop sin in your own churches before "reaching out" to others. Let's start with one "small" sin. One sin so "small" that you'll probably think it's ridiculous that I even point it out:

The Bible doesn't that God can't look upon large sins. It says he can't look upon sin at all. Big or small, sin is sin. And doesn't the Bible you profess to believe in tell you to abide by the laws of the land? So let me ask what you Christians do when you pass a Highway Patrol officer sitting on the side of the road? Do you hit the brakes like the rest of us heathens? Did you have that cruise control set above the speed limit? I asked my ex wife this question and she told me that sins can be forgive, but that people (like me supposedly) who continue in their sins after realizing it's wrong are pushing it. So I pointed out to her that if she hits her brake pedal when she sees an officer of the law she KNOWS she's doing wrong and she's continuously doing it. When she sets that cruise control above the speed limit, even by the few miles per hour that she knows she can get away with, she's purposefully "sinning" by breaking the "laws of the land".

The rest of you Christians, I imagine, do the exact same things. But you give it no thought. It's only a "petty" sin to you after all. But guess what, folks: sin is sin is sin is sin. Your continuous "sin" of breaking the speed limit, even though you know it's wrong, is just as bad in God's eyes as my production of pornography. Only HUMANS put "levels" to sin. You sin by speeding, know about it, do it again and again, and most likely never ask God's forgiveness for it. Do you think you're going to hell for this purposeful sinning? No? Why not?!? I'll tell you why not:

BECAUSE "SINNING" AND WHAT SENDS SOMEONE TO HEAVEN OR HELL IS ALL MADE UP AND DETERMINED BY "MEN". Not God. If you truly believed the Bible, you'd be just as scared of constantly speeding, when you know it's wrong, as you are of a more "serious" (in your eyes) sin.

Christians are so full of sh@#t.

[FTM]

Donovan, you said:

"See, you Christians can't even agree on what's right and wrong."

and

"Christians are so full of shit."

I agree, we can't. We are full of shit. We're people, plain and simple. I'm sorry you were exposed to a form of Christianity in which people deny such things. The fact is that we're just broken, foolish people. I readily admit this, and you won't get an argument from me (or many other Christian on this blog) on this point.

Jesus wasn't like this... And to be like Jesus, which we strive to do, would be to be perfect. It's an irony of Christianity, I suppose... We're broken and foolish by nature, and yet we strive to be like Jesus. And irony, but also central to our faith.

Donovan, we're not all as bad as you think. We're bad, yes, but, you get the picture...

[Donovan Phillips]

Ah, Ami.... if you're one of the "believers" I'd like to ask you a question:

Who has the life? The person living it well, or the one believing in Santa Claus for adults?

Please do this for me: explain Hosea 13:16 to me.

Tell me how that's not abortion, commanded by God. Explain to me how that doesn't contradict Exodus 20:13. Answer that one question for me, Ami. Please. :)

[Donovan Phillips]

And Ami... you still haven't addressed any of the issues raised by my post. You've just diverted attention, as those without answers often do.

[Roar]

Donovan, you're boring in your questions. I don't really care about the other things you wrote about, but your latest two comments are pretty bad since they reveal your deep ignorance of ANE culture and context. For that reason, keep your conversations to things that don't make you look stupid.

Seriously, if you can't even comprehend Exodus 20:13, then why bother explaining Hosea 13:16 to you? Do you even know what Hosea 13 is about, or are you just pulling random verses out of context again without regard for proper (compared to your anachronistic) interpretation? It looks like that latter.

Come back when you realize that you know absolutely nothing about Scripture. You're just not worth the time. I don't give skeptics the benefit of the doubt, mainly because they never do their homework. Looking at your post, neither have you. Thanks for your arguments by outrage. They're really convincing. :P

Anyway, you sound like Farrell Till. Uneducated but trying to sound like it. You can continue with your opinions, but don't be stupid about the scripture. People do watch you, you know.

By the way, if you really feel like I'm just talking crap with nothing to back myself up, I welcome you to join me on theologyweb.com and share your views there. I do warn you, however, you may end up seeing how quickly the people there will laugh you off the forum due to your excessive ignorance.

[Adrian]

Like those girls interviewed it seems to me there is a lot of bitterness, Donovan. I can atest to lashing out at things that have hurt me but I dont try to convince myself Im right when Im not. Seriously, if what you've seen of Christianity has done that to you then wow. It's sad how we can be but its life its how we are humans=sinful. It's in our nature so I don't get how you act like youre so much better and happier. Ever thought the key to life wasn't happiness but following God. Life is about being sad and happy sometimes why else would we have those emotions? Explain that to me. Even God gets angry. To me you just seem really bitter and hey I got my issues too Im not saying Im better. I just want you to understand that at least these guys are doing something and taking a stand for it. That's more than 99 percent of Christians can say. Maybe not all theyre tactics are completely perfect but neither are they and neither are you. It's the heart that counts and if youre sincere in your heart and have good intentions then that's what glorifies God. Also who are you to say where Jesus would have been or not? I dont get where you get that from if he talked with a prostitute alone i think thats pretty big. I wouldnt even put myself in that situation. Jesus was perfect also and we are not the bible says in 2 corinthians 13:11 to "aim for perfection" not be perfect or else. Thats why grace even exists. If we never sinned Jesus wouldnt have even come so remember that. Sin is sin yes but that doesnt mean everytime we do it that we see it as sin its our nature. We are to aim for perfection but that can only be attained in heaven

[Donovan Phillips]

Roar, you're speaking out of pure ignorance. The two posts to which I replied have been deleted.

And, by the way, I was raised in the Bible. My father is a retired pastor. I'm fully aware of what verses are supposed to mean. Probably moreso than most here.

[Donovan Phillips]

Adrian,

Do you have friends who believe what they hear on "Coast to Coast AM"? If not, imagine having a friend who truly believed in Santa Claus and adamantly defended his beliefs. YOU know there's no Santa but your friend truly believes in Santa.

THAT, my friend, is how I feel about people who believe in the Bible, Christianity, and the concept of God as a being.

None of those things mentioned in that last paragraph are to be taken seriously by a rational, thinking person.

It annoys me when grown ups process a belief in an "almighty" God. There is no being up there who gets angry. There is no heaven. There is no hell.

But let's assume the heaven of the Bible existed... why would you want to go there ? Why would you want to miss out on some of the best things in life here simply so you could go to "heaven" and sit at the feet of God telling him how Holy he is for all eternity?

How can you not read events in the Bible and see how bullshit superstitions inspired the stories you read?

God is not a literal being, folks. Perhaps there is a "higher power" in the form of energy as a lifeforce that holds us all together, but if there really was a God why would he allow small innocent children to die of cancer or experience brutal rapes? How would such things "glorify" him in any way?

THINK, people, THINK! Why do modern, supposedly intelligent people continue to pass around stories written back when the world was "flat"?

[Mike]

Why were the posts deleted?

[mike]

Wait a second. My post regarding J.C.S GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS was deleted? What was wrong with that post? Not even a quick email explaination? A clean "on topic" post deleted in the midst of a flame of off topic distracting posts. What did I do to deserve to have my post deleted?

Mike, Craig, JR? Anyone?

[Mike]

After sleeping on it last night I have decided that it doesnt matter why my post was deleted and no explaination is needed. Im sure that there is a good reason for the removal of the post and ultimately the reason is not important. What is important is that I support xxxchurch in everything they do and Im sure the enemy would like nothing more than to make me start second guessing a ministry that has literaly changed my life. Thanks for everything you do guys, and I apologize if I stepped over the line in any way.

[Adrian]

Hey Donovan I just have two questions. Do those things really fill you up or do you lie to yourself that they do? When you look at nature, how do you explain it?

[craig]

donovan..
glad you are back around...but the reason we went to the LA Times is so we can find someone to print Bibles. beeing quiet about this wont help us get bibles. maybe you can ask your dad if he has any leads?

craig

[Mike]

Was there a story in the LA Times regarding xxxchurch? If so, I guess I missed it. Anyone got a link?

[Jeff]

With thoughts of teaching a pig to dance in my head...

Mike, I swear I saw a link to it this weekend. Let me check and I'll put up a link if I find it.

[Mike]

You crack yourself up dont you Jeff? But, dont start the porky polka just yet. The link I posted was not related to xxxchurch. And since Craig come back and mentioned the LA Times again, I thought I might have missed something. Good looking out though.

[chris]

just saw that the american bible society slogan is

GOOD NEWS FOR EVERYONE

how funny!

[Graphicartist 2k5]

anyone that produces porn has no business talking any crap to Christians about what we believe. seriously. I don't care if you flame the livin' crap out of me for saying that, donovan, but it's the truth. you have no business telling any Christian anything about what porn is, and so on and so forth, trying to convince us that it's somehow "ok" for people to be involved in. I really think your issue isn't even with us Christians, it's really with God, because you simply don't want to be obedient to what God's Word says. it's that simple. you're no different than a rebellious two year old child, looking to stir up trouble just so he can get attention. go ahead, talk your crap to me, donovan. copy and paste what I've just said so you can make your pointless pontifications against the truth that you are rebellious to God, and you're living in sin. go ahead and say that God's Word isn't the truth, and see how far it will get you when you're standing before God on judgment day. i'm not judging you, donovan, i'm only saying what God's Word says. you are seperated from God because you choose to live in sin, it's that simple. you chose porn over His Word, and you're blinded to the truths in His Word because of that. don't expect me to be a "nice guy" or "wussy Christian" about this either, because I KNOW that porn is bad. am I tempted to get involved in it? yes. do I have the choice to not get involved in it? yes. did Jesus set me free from sin through His Blood? yes. do I have to fall victim to porn and let it overtake my life? NO. the ball's in your court, donovan, so go ahead with your "pro-porn" attitude and be sure you bring your sophomoric name-calling with you, because that's all I've read in your posts in regards to what other Christians have said concerning porn.

on a side-note, if there is no heaven or hell, then how do you suppose you'll be held accountable for choosing a sinful lifestyle over God's Word? ohhhh, i get it now. you won't be held accountable, will you, donovan? but the rest of us will? as God's Word says, "God is not a respector of persons", which means that you will inevitably have to stand before Him and give an account of your life to Him, and you won't be able to make your pointless and ignorant comments to God either, because He already knows why you chose porn over Him.

[Jeremy]

flames, flames, flames... oh, why do we bother with message boards? It seems that there's a disconnect between people and reality once it's on the internet. Nevertheless, there are truths within many of the statements made, even if made in poor context.

I'm pleased to see that this ministry is stirring things up on both sides of the issue. Christ certainly set that example with so many of his statements. Although we are called to try our best to be at peace with everyone, Christ wasn't afraid to be rough around the edges. I'm glad that many religious people are upset; I'm glad that many non-christians are confused by the absurdity. This seems to be a little bit of the nature of God.

Donovan, I appreciate a lot of what you say. Many of us are, at best, hypocrites. I'm sure that you've come across many Christians who go against the very teachings of Christ in their daily activities and in their deliberate actions or non-actions. Remember though that Christ's message is not one of condemnation and hell, but of grace. We are neither going to hell for speeding nor for allowing Sudanese genocide, but we certainly need forgiven for both. However your santa clause argument is a fallacy in that Christians could make the same argument in the opposite direction with a less degrading, more realistic object of faith. Saying you're wrong because I know you're wrong isn't very productive.

And to the people making comments that other people are stupid/ignorant/whatever for disagreeing, save some air.

[Mileskor]

You did the right thing by posting the ABS' letter. You did not do the right thing by spinning the story as "Jesus loves you regardless of your profession" so as to make the ABS sound anti-gospel. The ABS isn't against the need for pornstar evangelism; they're trying to prevent you from making God's Word a novelty. Still, I don't think the situation's hopeless; there are some things that you should do differently:

1. Meet with the ABS in person, rather than via email, for goodness' sake.
2. Maybe it's an attractive cover, but that's not the main thing; it's not the most urgent need. Getting them to open the book isn't the goal - helping them to see and savor Jesus Christ is. That's why...
3. If you're committed to reaching pornstars, why not highlight the passages in the Bible that talk about lust, adultery, sexual immorality and promiscuity, and include some related devotional material? Since you guys are pastors, I trust you have some theological training. Why not do the hard work of tailoring the NT notes so that a porn star (one who wants freedom) can understand?

If you were to take some of the above to heart and re-approach ABS in person, in love, and without the "they're anti-gospel" rhetoric, both parties may be able to meet in the middle.

[Redius]

Hey, far be it from me to shit on any man's religious beliefs, but let's be honest about things here: Christians are looking to completely eliminate porn, and put those who labor to create porn behind bars. Yeah, that's totally Christ-like. What's the fundamental message? Christians are mostly complete fucking idiots prattling on about meaningless details regarding translations of translations of translations of second and third-hand accounts of the life of some dude who died 2000 years ago, and then proclaiming it the 'unalterable and holy Word of GOD' because some priests were high on Jesus Juice when they read it.

For sheer nutty thought processes, this takes the cake. And it scares me that if I'd been brought up with a picture of Jesus on the wall I'd probably be out there bringing the good ol Word of God out to the porn stars right along with our friendly pastors here.

Don't get me wrong: I've FELT the presence of the Lord, and that is a high in many ways superior even to the Holy Herbs-- the psychedelic hallucinogenic entheogenic plants of shamanic practices througout history and even before history. I am someone who's sought out a lot of different holy experiences, and I know from personal experience that the gnosis offered by the Church is for real. And what amazes me is the gullibility of those who've been programmed to believe in all the nutjob, puritannical, negative crap that gets sold with an otherwise positive spiritual experience, the bullshit concepts that only Jesus can bring states of grace, that you'll be doomed to hell if you don't follow sets of rules. Prayer can indeed change lives. The message of universal love, forgiveness and grace is the real deal. But honestly? The bullshit is just plain scary.

I like porn, and I like masturbation, I like sex and I don't give a damn about marriage or any church. I'm a scary radical liberal with the drugs and the free love and the anti-establishment viewpoints, and I've got a message of truth for all you sinning christians out there.

Your religion brings those who follow it happiness and eternal salvation, everlasting bliss for All who know God and/or his All-Holy Son, the Savior of Mankind, the greatest King of Kings of All-On-High Heavenly Body, Jesus Christ our Lord and Confident, All-Giver who died on the cross for our sins, who bled and cried and perished that All may Live Eternally in His Heavenly Embrace. This is not some weak or judgemental or fearful or unthoughtful guy you worship. He is the Lord of empathy and understanding and brotherly love, this Jesus guy. We're not talking about Zeus, God of Lightning who buggered every goddess, woman and beast on the planet and smote with a vengeance. Jesus is way more Ganesha than the old testament's Kali or Shiva, and honestly, not even Ganesha is as forgiving and loving as Jesus. And you're out there every day, trying to emulate that and worship that and give thanks to that wonderful guy. I think that's fucking fantastic. Honestly, I think you guys have, in Jesus, one of the coolest and nicest Deities around.

See, and that's my point. Jesus and His Love are enough. The healing that He can bring and the ease of suffering, the Divine Comfort He brings to those who are dying, and the sense of Peace that comes from loving Jesus is more than sufficient to make you a leading player in the world religion field come hell or high water.

The problem I have is with your insistence on running society. Offering people a source of comfort if they've lost their way is a beautiful thing, and I really support your handing out Jesus Loves Porn Stars Bibles. I would love to purchase one, but I won't donate towards giving one to someone else. I want one for myself, because it would give me a way to access Christianity-- as a useful way to approach spirituality, an effective tool in my magickal reality control tacklebox.

But your definition of Sin is completely ridiculous! It's goddamn preposterous! I mean, how far can you stretch? Y'all are reading too damn literally with a book of goddamn parables that was passed down orally for hundreds of years before being written down. Honestly. Fucked up. The Rules of Behavior you've got going on are just plain Weird and almost certainly weren't espoused by Jesus Himself. Times change, you say. Well I say goddamn right times change! And they changed right past you! Yeah, so you've got kids being introduced to sex via porn. So what? How should they be introduced to it with abstinence only sex ed in schools driving STD and teen pregnancy rates up and abortions performed by shady backroom butchers? Because that's what Christian America's pushing for right now. Allying with hypocritical neo-Facists promoting wholesale killing in the name of Christ, and the violent oppression of dissenting viewpoints. No, I'm not complaining about oppressing the terrorists viewpoints, I'm talking about oppressing the views of everyday Americans, telling them they should be unhappy because they masturbate, telling them they're gonna wind up raping little girls if they don't stop watching pornography. It's just pathetic, and it makes me and the rest of my secular porn-watching buddies sick.

You have a beautiful goddamn Faith and you don't need to be sullying up His Name by shitting on other people's parades! It's illegal to take drugs, illegal to buy vibrators in some states, illegal to drive at high speed on an empty back road, illegal to talk while driving, illegal to paint your house without getting the color approved by the housing commission, illegal to go skinny dipping in many towns and counties, illegal to raise your kids in ways significantly different from the sanctioned norm (unless you're a Christian), illegal to get drunk where other people can see you, and illegal to give your car too many horsepower. It is illegal to protect yourself in many states and it is illegal to take pictures of public buildings or file complaints about police misconduct, according to many Florida police officers. Congratulations, the Christian Alliance with Facist Values has become Officially Successful now. Yeah, I know Fox News likes to say it's the liberals who want to control every little thing we do, and then hold up Hillary and Kerry as proof. Both are Christians, along with most every other person in a position of power. Hello! Who's the real authoritarian here?

What I'm trying to say is mad props to xxxchurch.com for bringing healing for those who need it. And a healthy fuck you to you and all the rest of you authoritarian bozos for trying to push your weight around. It's called a free marketplace of ideas, and if Jesus Christ is the real deal, He'll win it on merit alone. Enough with the dirty dealings. I shouldn't have to deal with my issues of guilt that you've foisted upon me with your propaganda, oppression and out-and-out lies.

Jesus didn't go into the brothels. The prostitutes who wanted His Love went to Him, and they got it, every last drop, and were Beloved by His Grace. Don't you get it? If someone uses porn along the way to his downfall, isn't that indicative of him as a person and not the stuff he used along the way? Can he be saved? Sure! Jesus' Love even extended to Hitler himself, which no doubt our President is counting on for when his time comes.

The reality is that most people in the porn industry really fucking love their jobs. They love sex and enjoy it with a joy unmitigated by their making a living off it, and most of those who watch it are perfectly normal well adjusted healthy happy human beings with a strong sense of self and a comfort with their innermost nature. I'm sorry that you have been ingrained with shame enough to never have a healthy relationship with your sexuality. But you should understand that you too can find peace of mind through sex if you work hard enough at getting rid of those feelings of shame caused by early indoctrination with conservative christian values. It is strongly cautioned that notions of Sin are strongly correllated to cycles of self-abuse and eventual self-destruction, and that being introduced to said concepts early in life frequently leads to feelings of inadequacy and self-hatred, correllating strongly to cycles of addiction, as many addicts find themselves convinced of the propriety of their early indoctrinations after a cycle of self-abuse spawned by the negative impulses programmed in youth and attached to everyday normal human functions like love, sex, and death. This early negative programming, fed by lack of healthy role models and absolute segregation of the youth and combined with both explicit and implicit brainwashing techniques frequently leads to devastating consequences later in life when the individual naturally has those impulses that have been laden with negative baggage. This often leads to a breakdown of the self, addiction, crime, suicide, and violence due to vicious cycles of self-definition that ultimately lead to a crossroads in life: either to embrace the programming and receive forgiveness and healing (neither of which would be necessary without the negative programming in the first place) or to continue the cycle of negativity into a life of poverty, homelessness, prison and an early death. Though I've got nothing but Brotherly Love for Jesus and all y'all, you're seriously fucking with the world. Quit it. You can spread the Love all you want, I think I can speak for all of us secularists when I say that, but you've gotta stop spreading the hate. It's seriously not good for people, or your Eternal Soul. You know what He said about judging not and all that.

And hey, maybe I'm gonna get some 'I'm so very sorry you're weighted down with cynicism and the programming of your secular upbringing,' and maybe I'm just gonna get bashed for flaming Christians with the same mouth that praises Jesus (you may think I'm lying about my being down with the big JC, but I'm not), but honestly, you don't see Christians in Europe pushing people around all the time the same way you do here. What a surprise, they have more sexual freedom and less sex addiction. More drug freedoms and fewer drug problems. Or within Europe, you look at Germany-- historically a shameful people, very Puritannical Christian. They get some freedom and what happens? Scheizer Porn. They make Porn that would have made my unitarian grandmother weep just being in the same room with it on. The USA? Same. Repression, and the unsurprising backlash-- interracial anal creampie gangbang porn, or the constant scourge of homosexuality. Yeah, and then there's the really bad stuff like child molesters and chronic public masturbators, rapists, disgusting and not-so-disgusting fetishes and other creeps of all flavors. All that, the legal and illegal perversions of normal sexuality, it's the fault of the Christian mindfuck.

Look again at the statistics. "Kids" are looking at porn, but what age are those kids? Why, 80% of 'children' looking at porn are 16-18! My baptist grandmother was married with children working 60 hour weeks at 16 just as my great great grandfather was fighting to preserve the Union at 16, so what children are we talking about, exactly? I mean, if you strip away all rights from human beings in high school, of course they're going to continue to act like children a lot of the time, but don't tell me a 17 year old is too young and dumb to make decisions for their own lives BY NATURE. We rob teens of their value to society and lock them in prisons and tell them their changing bodies are dirty and their urges immoral and OF COURSE they're gonna wind up messed up! The internet comes along and suddenly adults can't control their kids as much and the adults freak and the kids wind up hating themselves and dressing all Emo and getting high while engaging in creepy S&M scenes and starring in Max Hardcore Porn all on their road to Finding Jesus, finding a gutter, or finding their way out of the maze of twisty passages all alike that Puritannical forces have laid out before them.

I don't hate Christians. I definitely don't hate Jesus. I don't even hate that you think you and everyone else will experience everlasting hell if they don't buy the particular interpretation of a poorly translated book of mythology that you're trying to say is the ultimate literal Truth. I'm just saying offer me Jesus without all the bullshit and maybe I'd bite, but I'm just too sensitive to crafty marketing schemes to consider Christianity as a possible lifestyle.

So in all, my take is that you're doing a good job with the attending porn conventions (it's not like you're going to porn studios to preach the word-- a convention is a public space) and the Jesus Loves Porn Stars routine, the commercials and press junkets. I dig it. But if you really want to bring the masses to God, you should really consider pushing Christianity's practical uses and embrace the secular agenda more-- lose the Porn Ruins Lives, Families and Communities bullshit, because it's every bit as much a load of bull as my blaming every social ill on Christianity, and every bit as true.

[Fade To Numb]

I think someone has been taking a few too many graduate-level classes in human sexuality, because we've got a full-scale thesis paper above.

I think you may be a little bit confused if you think Mike and Craig's goals are to completely eliminate porn and put porn stars behind bars. I'm not aware of anyone suggesting this.

Redius, don't lump all "American Christians" together. Most of us here are trying to change society by showing Jesus' love, which is just what you actually recommend. No one is saying "YOU CAN'T WATCH PORN." I think the message has been "There is something better. And his name is Jesus."

Without ANY trust in the validity of the Bible, I'm not sure how you can be down with JC at all, honestly.

[Bryan]

Father, forgive me for I have forgotten to care about my brothers. Forgive me because I have abused your children so that my voice could be heard. Forgive me because I did not show your love.

Porn is an intensly sensitive issue, as demonstrated above. I cannot speak for anyone else, but in my position I find that my life is better now that I am no longer addicted to pornography.

True, I loved it, I enjoyed it. But, there was still something missing in my life. Sexual gratification is a natural part of life, but my god is God not orgasm. He has asked me to keep the marriage bed sacred and pure. I will try my hardest to do that.

I come to the table with the understanding that I will fail, but there will be forgiveness. This does not give me license to pursue all kinds of sexual acts.

Sin puts a barrier between God and I. I want to remove all barriers between God and I. I want to be as close to him that his proverbial breath will warm my cheecks on a cold day.

I know many people may not agree with me, and that's ok. Your relationship with God does not hinder mine, nor mine yours.

xxxchurch - thank you, I have your software installed on my computer, as does my roommate, it has been a great help.

[Ryan]

I was listening to an older D.L.S. podcast, the one with Shirley from westborough baptist, one of my favorites... GOOD 'OL SHIRLEY... hehe. In fact I played it for a non-Christian friend of mine to show him a perfect example of how Christians should never behave towards others. It pisses me off that we can stay busy shining the light in the dark places all day long but we end up wasting time just combating the ignorant and mean spirited people like Shirley who would make anyone have a negative outlook on Christianity. I was also thinking... Is Shirley aware of the fact that there is a whole group of scriptures that follow Malachai??? Jesus, said judge not lest you be judged, Shirley said you better judge, Hmmmm... Jesus or Shirley, I have yet to see a kid rockin' a W.W.S.D. bracelet? I think it is hilarious that she validates her foul language by saying those terms are scriptural. I am having trouble finding dumb-ass anywhere in the Bible. Keep up the good work M and C. Pray for Shirley!!! -Ryan

[Alex]

Redius, I believe that there is some amount of truth in almost everything, and I believe that there is some truth in what you say. Christians are full of bull. I’m a Christian, and so often I am just as full of bull as everyone else. And I would say that there are more people in America that call themselves Christians, that aren’t. All they do is go to church on Sunday mornings, and nothing else changes in their lives. These people piss me off. I also believe that Christians in America would benefit spiritually if Christianity was illegal like it is in china. At least this would separate the men form the boys, and people would stop saying they are Christians, just because they don’t know what other religion to be a part of.

But, all that being said, there are some problems with what you wrote. First off, let me address your problems with the translations of the Bible. There are hundreds of times more ancient transcripts of the Bible than any other book. If you want to call it a myth and not believe it, that’s between you and god. But, it isn’t something that was just poorly passed down.

To say that the rules that Christians believe weren’t espoused by Christ, is just plain wrong. Jesus said that if you even look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery with here in your heart. He certainly wouldn’t condone pornography. Many people try to bring up the passage where Jesus said “let him that has no sin throw the first stone,” as their permission to sin. But what they forget is that right after Jesus said that, he turned to the woman and said, “go and sin no more.” He does not condone sin.

I enjoyed reading what you wrote. I don’t agree with all of it, but it did make me think and for that I thank you. I hope that other people who read it will think, and not bash you like so many on this site have in the past. I don’t agree with you but I do appreciate your views.

[Mileskor]

Bryan, how did you overcome your addiction to pornography?

[Bryan]

Mileskor, I was able to overcome pornography through a great deal of prayer and bible study. I found an online course specifically designed to help individuals who are addicted to porn and other such things. However, I think the most important aspect was I confessed my sin to my roommate. And not just the generic "Oh, yeah I stuggle with porn" - but with authentic remorse for my sins I confessed specific struggles, temptations, and anything else related to my struggle with porn. Sin is like a fungus it grows very well in dark places. When my sin is kept to myself it stays nice, dark and safe from exposure, by confession I exposed the fungus to light, and that is the first step to freedom.

Then I took everything related to my addition and took it out of my life or changed it so that I worshipped God when I used it. For instance:
masturbation - gone (not an easy task mind you),
internet - I enrolled in the online course so that I could view the internet as an avenue to draw closer to God instead of filling my mind with porngraphy,
Desire for Marriage/girlfriend - Kept in check - If I can't keep my life in order when it's just me, adding another person to it would be utter chaos

Adding to this I worshipped God everyday. It helps that I play the piano, so I'd sit down at my Keyboard and play my heart out.

The road to sexual purity is a long one - for many people a road with no end - they must continually fight the temptations Satans puts in their path. I think I will forever fight the temptations to engage in illict sex, even after marriage - I am certain that all the married men will attest to the fact that marriage does not take temptations away it only means you have more to loose by giving into temptations.

Mileskor, I'll be praying for you, I encourage you to check out the website. But mind you, you will only get as much out of is as you put into it. You will have to work at it, there is no 'Advance to Go' card in life.

by the way the websites is called: Setting Captives Free (www.settingcaptivesfree.com) - the course is The Way of Purity.

[Cari]

A Christian is not someone who follows the rules of religion. A Christian is one who has a personal relationship with God, hence there are many false "Christians" in this world. They proclaim to be a Christian when it's convenient for them. Yes, there are Christians who also struggle with porn.

Aside from the whole issue being discussed in this blog, this is what I'd like to share after reading all these comments. And I don't believe we should be putting down the ABS, either.

James 3:1-12
"Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brother, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check. When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whold course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brother, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? My brothers, cana fig tree bear olive, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a asalt spring produce fresh water."

And for the person who questioned why God allows such horrible things to happen - I believe it's because sin has corrupted His world. Mankind has fallen so far from obeying Him, and he allows these things to happen.

[Chris Ritchey]

"The reality is that most people in the porn industry really fucking love their jobs. They love sex and enjoy it with a joy unmitigated by their making a living off it, and most of those who watch it are perfectly normal well adjusted healthy happy human beings with a strong sense of self and a comfort with their innermost nature." - Redius

I'm curious, we've seen evidence from the mouth of porn stars. What evidence do you present to back up that claim? I'm curious since you seam to be so strong about that, so I'm just curious how you know that for a fact?

[Chris Ritchey]

ok ok my grammer was bad, it usually is so I'm appologizing cause I'm sure you got the impression that I was curious :)

[Chris Ritchey]

ok ok my grammer was bad, it usually is so I'm appologizing cause I'm sure you got the impression that I was curious :)

[Wil]

Christians, please stop feeding the trolls.

A comment section of a blog entry is not the best place for these discussion/debates. Donovan just seems like an attention whore, riding on the coat tails of XXXChurch to work out his personal issues with religon and his dad. Don't encourage him, because with every reply, you're feeding his ego, and giving him an excuse to justify himself. If he and others really didn't have a problem with XXXChurch mandate (helping porn addicts and porn stars), he wouldn't even be here, like 99% of the rest of the porn industry isn't. The fact that XXXChurch is making a difference is just pissing him off. He needs to be ignored.

[Peter]

Just an observation: Donovan is a pornographer. In the podcast, he seemed a pretty reasonable guy, and had a decent debate with Craig and Mike. I don't know what happened since then to change his behaviour, but there we are. The point remains, he is a pornographer, if Craig and Mike are doing their job, it means that both Donovan's source of talent (actors and actresses) and his customer base (porn viewers, addicts included) will start drying up. XXXchurch is a direct business church to him. Is it a surprise that he attacks them? If they were really viewed as the joke he says they are, why waste the energy trying to criticise them?

[Graphicartist 2k5]

i'll tell you why donovan comes on here, talking all of his "pro-porn" stuff. it's because he wants so badly for us to tell him that what he's doing is right. he is trying to justify what he's doing so he can keep doing it, because deep down in his heart, he KNOWS he's in sin. i know how sin operates through a person's life that is involved in porn in one way or another, and how the devil will tell a person involved in porn in one way or another that porn is "harmless", and "noone really gets hurt". donovan is simply in darkness, and he needs the power of God to knock him on his butt. seriously. i'm sure that donovan is a pretty "reasonable" guy and all that good stuff, but the truth is that he will not understand what us Believers in Jesus are really talking about because, as i've already stated, he's in darkness concerning pornography, and he can't see it as being a bad and sinful thing. i think what donovan really needs is prayer, because God doesn't want for him to go to hell, and i know that God does love him, in spite of his wrongful attitudes towards Him.

[Charles C]

Keep going guys. Your work and design is impacting people. I wore my Jesus Loves Porn Stars shirt to a rave party where friends and I ministered at in New Orleans during Mardi Gras, and it was a hit. I had at least 50 people, including a girl who was a porn star, comment on my shirt. It opened up great conversations and opportunities to minister the love of Christ. Galatians 6:9 is still in the Good Book, so keep on "Do not grow weary in well doing, for if you dont give up, you will reap a harvest of righteousness." Peace out... Charles C

[test]

testing to see if i can post from remote server

[Donovan Phillips]

You folks are quite amusing. I just read through these posts for the first time in quite awhile. You're all still feeling high and might, better than anyone else.

The truth of the matter is that I come here because it provides a bit of entertainment to come here and give a bit of shit to you Christians. You're mostly weak minded and easy to fuck with. It amusing.

Someday you'll think to yourself, "Yeah, this Christian life sure isn't as fulfilling as I've always been promised."

Well, Duh. It's based on fairy tales.

[Adrian]

and what are your beliefs based on?

[Adrian]

and what are your beliefs based on?

[CRAIG]

THE LA TIMES ARTICLE CAME OUT TODAY!

Check out:
www.triplexchurch.com/jesusbiblesLATIMES.pdf

[Bernie]

Excellent job fighting for this Craig and Mike. Sad to know that it's still so hard to explain what you are doing to so many people.

Is anybody else having trouble with the Bible donation link? I've tried it on several browsers on my Mac, and it doesn't work for me for some reason. Thanks.

[Will]

What a friggin scam u have goin on here. I personally am not an active christian so it doesnt offend me in anyway, however i know it would give my southern baptist aunt carrie a heart attack. in your defense, i think that a person at a porn expo wpuld be much more likely to take one of your porn star bibles rather than a plain covered bible. T-shirts should not ever have the statement that "Jesus loves porn stars" because that message can easily be interputed in a sarcastic manner. teenagers will be wearing that crap to school. 15yo girls will end up pregnant 3 weeks after she buys the shirt. t-shirts like that are gonna spread the message that the people wearing the has no problem with the sex industry and that they would even be willing to work in the industry. those shirts are nothing more than a joke. i cant believe people are donating $20 to u ladies and i say ladies very loosely because they think its a good thing u are doing. id like to have lots of those shirts actually to give to my girls at work. i own a titty bar. if u girls came into my club and i knew u were preaching in my vip lounge, i would put a stop to it. preaching does not belong inside a gentleman's club. the patrons to the adult industry leave the guilt of sin out in the truck before they come inside. i do think everyone should have the oppurtunity to find Jesus and i think your porn star bibles will be effective but i dont think anyone respects what u do now anymore that what u did 10 years ago. u will always be a woman to me though baby so good luck and dont be suprised when 14yo girls are wearing your t-shirt while participating in interacial group sex while they should be studying for a math test. I would even consider starting a ministry like yours but inly for the wrong reasons just like i would consider starting and escort service for all the right reasons. good luck.

[XXXChurchFan]

Regarding Craig's statement "This whole religious rule book just needs to be burned, and we need to reinvent the rules," Gross said. "Otherwise, Christianity is going to fade away." Really?? Christianity is going to fade away if the younger crowd doesn't reinvent it? Hmmmm.

Craig - I love you brother, but you're starting to sound a little like a loose cannon. Just read "The Gutter" and I get the same vibe after reading a statement something like "a strong pastor not being supported by a group of elders" (sorry but don't have the book in front of me). I'm all for getting excited and getting in the gutter, but I'm wondering who you have surrounding you and who is giving you guys counsel. (Anyone over 35?)

Don't get me wrong, I'm FOR you guys and am praying for you.

[Terri]

wow. I love how people really say what is on their minds.
As a person who has read the Bible, old and new testaments-I see no contradiction in having a cover that says Jesus loves porn stars.
How about a cover that says "Jesus loves"
and then a spot where you can fill in the rest of it...porn stars,Ron,Jenna,Belladonna, etc....
addicts...
dancers...
entertainers...
webmasters...
strip club owners...
etc, etc, etc.

[alan]

Great idea, not a great logo, at least to get it by the folks at American Bible Society. I can "see" their point, literally. But this can be fixed.

Try putting "Porn" and "Stars" on the same line. That makes it obvious that the two go together. I missed the word "Stars" the first time I looked at it (and I imagine the ABS people did, too. I'm a Boomer, so I can relate to the way they think.)

The first letters of the first three words (J, L and P) all slant down to the right. It's not natural for the eye to shift back left to pick up the S in "Stars" and see it as a word, especially since the star in place of the letter "a" gives the first-glance appearance of being a picture, not a word.

I hope I'm making sense because I would love for this project to succeed. God bless you for what you're trying to do. May his angels protect you as you march into the enemy camp to rescue spiritual POW's.

[Jack]

It seems the minute the church tries to reach out to sinners there are always people who say it is condoning their sin. I think some christians just dont want certain people to be christians and that is scary. find a publisher!!! God Bless!

When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" & tax collectors,they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors & 'sinners'?" On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2: 16-17

[Jeremy]

hey xxxchurch team! awesome idea! love it! I felt I needed to write ABS with my thoughts on this matter. Keep up the awesome work ya'll!

I just read an article by the united press international in reference to you...
"XXXchurch.com paid the American Bible Society to print 10,000 bibles with the "Jesus Loves" slogan, but the printer won't do it. In a letter to Foster and Gross the organization calls it "misleading and inappropriate for a New Testament."

Roy Lloyd, spokesman for the American Bible Society, said the group doesn't oppose XXXchurch.com's ministry. He said there just needs to be "a sense of propriety."

I would like to let you know that bibles are not for the saved only and shouldn't be...I believe the reason why we distribute new testaments is for the lost to know the love of God...and if porn stars don't know that God loves them, then who can?! I believe your sense of "propriety" is off, and we need to get out of religion and show porn stars and directors how to have a relationship with the all loving Father God! and finally I would like to know how the title of "jesus loves porn stars" is misleading? does he not love sinners? is that not the reason why Jesus died on the cross was for sinners and His love for them? I'm sorry is you are not the person that needs to hear this, can you please pass it onto the person who does need to read this? thank you so much...

Jeremy Boswell
Mesa, AZ

[john krahn]

i think you guys are doing great work, but i have to agree with the guy who says that the slogan Jesus Loves porn stars,could give the wrong impression, he certainly does but the slogan seems to legitamize the porn industry. i'm 44 years old so maybe i'm wrong but i think we need to be real careful we dont cheapen God's word while attempting to get it out there.

[Jason]

It seems that a lot of the comments posted are really abrasive and condemning towards ABS...saddens my heart (lets not forget that Jesus loves Bible publishers too). I love what you guys are doing and I agree with most of it, but I also respect the views of the publisher; the focus of there ministry is the preservation of the integrity of the gospel.

[Jeremy]

I agree with John on this one. Christians who look at a lot of the XXXchurch.com slogans and logos wouldn't catch that it's a anti-porn site at first. While non-believers, who are your target, might just think it's another porn site and go to it and find refuge, that's great. But in the Christian world (I hate to use that term, because it shouldn't be that way, but it unfortunately is.)things are gonna be a bit different. I read the article, it was interesting. And I'm behind you guys for seeing this through. Here's my point, I think if anyone, Christian or not would take a one look at the "Jesus Loves Porn Stars" logo would ultimately assume that it's suggesting that Jesus looks at porn and loves porn stars for being free to express sex and crap like that. The reason why is because there are too many things that suggest that kind of stuff already. (i.e-"Jesus Loves You, everyone else thinks you're an asshole", "Jesus is coming, HIDE THE PORN", "Song of Solomon, the Bible of PORN!", etc) Yes, that of course is not your message, but people aren't going to find that out unless they know what XXXchurch is or if they do some digging. Because of our culture and society, people will automatically assume the negetive. It's sad but it's true. I think you guys should definitely persue another publisher, I think Zondervan would be GREAT!.

[Brandon McCoy]

Im thinking you feel a little bit like Spinal Tap when the record company wouldnt use the artwork for "Smell the Glove"
they didnt fight, and they went down to playing at Puppet Shows!!
Keep fighting, you guys are amazing.

[Dan from Portland]

Let's have some unity in the body of Christ. Even as a "progressive Christian" in the Emerging Church, I can understand where the American Bible Society is coming from. Doesn't the Bible teach us that if our brother has a weaker conscience we should submit ourselves to him for the sake of them continuing in faith?
I whole hearted disagree that this is a "battle worth fighting." Not because communicating God's love to porn stars isn't a priority and a great pursuit but because we are to be diligent to "preserve the unity of Spirit in the bond of peace." To the world, arguments like this come off as a childish argument between two siblings who don't know how to share. Jesus said that those outside the church (porn stars included) will know you are Christians by your love for one another. Is it loving to fight your brother in Christ by putting a stumbling block in front of him?

I'm sure that you're mature enough to listen to your brother (American Bible Society) in coming up with a message that is clear in communicating love and is also unmistakably unilateral in its message.
The world is watching brothers. Can you work this out or will you continue to fight in front of those you're trying to reach?

[Gina]

Hi guys!

I'm sorry so many believers are throwing a fit about this. Look, the world isn't shy or coy about putting out their junk, so why not do something over the top for the sake of the Gospel? Either we believe the message FOR REAL FOR REAL or we don't. It's too bad some of our dear brothers and sisters unfortunately have a huge stick up their behinds about how we reach out to folks. Desperate times call for desperate measures. (pardon the cliche') Keep fighting, guys, I'm proud of ya!

[Keith]

Well, I guess I'm one of the old school guys that you are referring to that would be in opposition to the ""Jesus Loves Porn Stars" cover (I'm 49). Not exactly true, I think that the xxxchurch ministry is great. But, sometimes I wonder about the things that you say. For instance, "This whole religious rule book just needs to be burned, and we need to reinvent the rules," Gross said. "Otherwise, Christianity is going to fade away." Hmmm, Christianity is going to fade away? Or how about this one, "...typical Christian crap website with crosses and Bibles...". Might be taking this out-of-context, but are Bibles crap if they say "Holy Bible" and cool if they say "Jesus Loves Porn Stars"? LOL Mike and Craig, you sure keep things interesting!

[Spencer]

I think the issue is that this is creating tension in the church. Clearly the American Bible Society has convictions that it is inapropriate. Remember to "Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification."-Romans 14:19 If there if the people at ABS feel this is inapropriate as a fellow member of the church of Christ you should respect that decsion. If you can afford, take your buisness somewere else if you can't bite your lip and come up with a new cover. I am not saying that I personnaly think the Bible cover is bad. I know you have been praying about this and I think what you guys do is fantastic. Also remember in all things to "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;" -Proverbs 3:5

[mike foster]

great comments everyone. both pro and con. though i have to send special props to brandon mccoy for the spinal tap reference. beautiful. mike.

[Liz]

Writing "Jesus loves porn stars" implies that Jesus loves them for what they do. I am a nurse and I don't need you to give me a Bible that says "Jesus loves nurses" on the cover in order for me to read it. One of the most awesome truths about God is that we do not have to, nor could we ever, earn His love. His love for us has nothing to do with what we do. If simply writing "Jesus is love" or "Jesus loves you" isn't cool enough, perhaps you need to re-evaluate your perception of who is doing the work at these conventions. I'm pretty sure the Holy Spirit doesn't need us to have trendy shirts and Bibles in order to do His work. I respect that you are trying to reach people that many may overlook, but please do not give in to the pressure to be like the world...whether in your graphics, your tactics for getting more Bibles printed, your website, etc. The goal should be to love and honor God and man, and real love does not require trendy graphics. It is too radical to need that

[Peter Jenkins]

Jesus Loves giglos, prostitutes, porn stars and even politicians!!!

Whats the BIG DEAL??? If Jesus loves them then let him. If not then who cares! Dead men and women don't really have much choice other than to agree with what is said on their behalf.

Jesus who????

[Jonathan]

Hey Guys,

These guys are nuts....Jesus was completely about loving those the world hates. My advice is to contact Eugene peterson & the peole over at "Think". They would probably be more than happy to get your covers on a "Message Remix" Bible. That is the way to go!!! I will pray for you all as you continue to love on those the world shuns!!!!

[noel]

i tried to click the link that said "click here to order donate" but i get whisked to a page that said i don't have a shopping cart account yet. help pls. thanks

[KJN]

I appreciate what Liz had to say when she mentioned that she did not need a Bible with a cover saying that Jesue loves Nurses in order to be interested in reading the Bible. I have a point I want to make, but before I do, I want to express my appreciation to the ministry efforts of xxxchurch and their desire to minister in an area that many people both christians and non-christians are struggling with.

The authority of the Bible is in the truth that it claims and it originates in original greek and hebrew writings. Modern day versions of the Bible seek to interpret the original languages into our every day modern English instead of having the Bible read like the enlish of King James. However, these writings that make up the Bible claim to originate from God. So, people of faith believe these are Holy writings that must be treated with great respect. I think that the cover of the Bible should express this. The cover of the Bible should say Holy Bible, not something like "Jesus loves Porn Stars" or even "The Bible for Pornstars". The title of a book is important, and I think that putting a cover on the Bible to communicate any message other than Holy Bible is going down a wrong track. I think it takes away from the authenticity of what a Bible truly is.

The heart of the gospel message of Jesus is that he died for every sinner who is willing to accept that he is is sin and needs a saviour. The gospel calls those who are convinced by the Bible that they are sinners to put their faith in Jesus Christ as not just a good man but rather the Son of the one and only God and Creator of the Universe described in the Hebrew book of Genesis. So, the message is relevant to a porn star as well as every other kind of sinner that there is in the world today. So, the heart of xxxchurch is right in my opinion. However, the method which includes being insistent of having a personalized message printed on the cover of a Holy Bible is in my opinion poorly thought out. I believe that rather than make a major issue out of this it would be wiser to shift gears and apply all the creativity that clearly exists in this ministry to designing a top quality tract aimed at porn stars or maybe even a special information packet that would contain a regular Holy Bible New Testament in the package.

This is my humble opinion respectfully submitted.

[Edwin Rohweller]

Dang guys, I love the idea of putting the JLPS cover on the bibles. I am a youth elder at CrossRoad Youth Ministries in Gardena, CA. I teach High School kids and they never bring their bibles to youth group. However, I know if they had some JLPS covers on their bibles they would take them everywhere. They would read them and be asked questions about them at school. I even want one, no I want 50.

Once again, you guys are rockin hard for Jesus. Praise the Lord!